I want to bring back Thou!

[Lexicon]

I've been doing a lot of reading of older grammar books and think we've really lost something with the abandonment of the unique 2nd person singular forms.

I love
thou lovest
he loves

I write
thou writest
he writes

thou willt, shallt, art, etc

[Formiko]

I've been doing a lot of reading of older grammar books and think we've really lost something with the abandonment of the unique 2nd person singular forms.

I love
thou lovest
he loves

I write
thou writest
he writes

thou willt, shallt, art, etc

Maybe we wanted to get away from our German roots?

du liebst
du schreibst
Well then you'd have to add the 3rd person as well

er liebt - he loveth
er schreibt - he writeth

We then would also have to say "I love thee"
Ich liebe dich

[modus.irrealis]

But hasn't the sg. vs. pl. distinction been reestablished (in informal contexts) for many, if not, most English speakers? Like for me it's "you" vs. "you guys" and although it's more complicated than saying "you" is sg. and "you guys" pl., the distinction is there to be made. I think this is a useful distinction to make.

(For more formal contexts, I've always found it strange that many languages seem to have no problem using fewer pronouns, whether it's collapsing the sg. vs. pl., or using 3rd person for 2nd, or something else I'm not familiar with.)

Or do you also mean the verb forms as well? I'm happy those are gone, for aesthetic reasons if nothing else.

[JackFrost]

It died out for a reason.

[Abii]

What's with all the hate? I think it looks and sounds quite nice.

[Boes]

Maybe we wanted to get away from our German roots?

English has German roots?

[linguoboy]

Maybe we wanted to get away from our German roots?

English has German roots?

Or maybe we just wanted English to be as cool as Dutch.

[Boes]

Maybe we wanted to get away from our German roots?

English has German roots?

Or maybe we just wanted English to be as cool as Dutch.

Obviously that's impossible. Haven't you ever seen Pulp fiction?

[linguoboy]

Obviously that's impossible. Haven't you ever seen Pulp fiction?

Not yet in the original Dutch, no.

[Boes]

Obviously that's impossible. Haven't you ever seen Pulp fiction?

Not yet in the original Dutch, no.

Oh! Now I get it! You weren't trying to be funny, you were just looking for a fight! Seriously, if you want that, why don't you just say so? That would make it so much easier!

[linguoboy]

Oh! Now I get it! You weren't trying to be funny, you were just looking for a fight! Seriously, if you want that, why don't you just say so? That would make it so much easier!

Um, no, not at all. Sometimes a joke is just a joke, Boes, whatever your history with the jokester is. (And speaking of our history, can you seriously just put it behind you already? I know I have.)

On a less facetious note, roughly when did Dutch abandon du and the corresponding verb forms and was it before or after thou dropped out of mainstream usage in English?

[Sardonus]

I believe Dutch started to lose it after English, but there are dialects in the Netherlands that still use it. Then again there are dialects in Yorkshire which still use thou- I can remember reading 'A Kestrel for a Knave' and being fascinated by one of the characters saying "Tha can do it thisen, tha can!" for 'You can do it yourself, you can!".

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

I've been doing a lot of reading of older grammar books and think we've really lost something with the abandonment of the unique 2nd person singular forms.

I love
thou lovest
he loves

I write
thou writest
he writes

thou willt, shallt, art, etc

If thou wantest to bring back these pronouns, then do so. Who is there to hinder thee?
(Is do so correct imperative then?)

There might be a slight problem with the sort of inverted shapes of
thou (subj) thee (obj)
and
ye (subj) you (obj)
and I seem to remember that some authors, such as Shakespeare, mixed them up in their usage, and this was part of the development of the current forms (form, that is, unless you have y'all or such to distinguish number).

(The plural forms might be better off written yee/yoo, but I suppose no one would like that. )

[YngNghymru]

'Ye' and 'you' were originally nominative/accusative case, but actually began to appear in free variation before Shakespeare - I think it may've been something to do with the two appearing for euphonic purposes or something, but whatever the reason, they're now dialectally spread across the UK (I've heard loads of Geordies using 'ye' as singular nom/acc and 'yez' as plural nom/acc, although my experience of Geordies generally is quite restricted).

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Judging from Germanic languages, it seems that only the first person personal pronouns are stable (I me my mine we us our) while the 2nd and 3rd person personal pronouns have been replaced or shifted all over the field.

[Travis B.]

Judging from Germanic languages, it seems that only the first person personal pronouns are stable (I me my mine we us our) while the 2nd and 3rd person personal pronouns have been replaced or shifted all over the field.

Even then, though, note that in many southern German dialects, in the place of Standard German wir there is mir/mia, and likewise there is significant variation with regard to the first person plural nominative (between vi, me/mø/mi, and oss) in many Norwegian dialects.

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

Is the 1st person singular the only stable one then, or is it as flighty as the others? The I/me seems to be an Indo-European pair, and if so, they have been kept for a long while. Of course, pronouns were not as frequent then, which makes it even more remarkable.

[YngNghymru]

Actually, even our first person pronouns aren't that stable. 'Us' has replaced 'me' in a number of Northern dialects, and even occasionally as 'I':

Us is goin' down the pub now.
Give us a try.

But at least they've stayed in the paradigm, ish.

[AnaMZ]

Please excuse the irrelevance of what I am about to say, but suddenly seeing the word 'thou' brought up a pet peeve of mine.

For God's sake, if you are going to try and be fancy, and use 'thee' and 'thou' in poetry/prose/god forbid whatever else you come up with, at least do it right.
If I see one more "Thee are so lovely"-type travesty towards the English language, I may very well vomit.

*breathes heavily*

[YngNghymru]

Please excuse the irrelevance of what I am about to say, but suddenly seeing the word 'thou' brought up a pet peeve of mine.

For God's sake, if you are going to try and be fancy, and use 'thee' and 'thou' in poetry/prose/god forbid whatever else you come up with, at least do it right.
If I see one more "Thee are so lovely"-type travesty towards the English language, I may very well vomit.

*breathes heavily*

Yes. 'Thou art so lovely, I would see thee crownéd queen of all the nations of our globe.'