Language Course

[riki]

After my long hiatus from studying this language, I'm back now, and I want to take full advantage of this course that you have crafted carefully my friend.

I have a few questions relating to grammar however, and I hope these won't be too hard for you.

‘Oku mohe ‘a e tamasi‘í

You've mentioned that (I can't type stress on my keyboard unfortunately) with `a being focussed.

Now, if the boy is being 'focussed', does that mean it would be more correct to say in English (for translation means) the boy is sleeping there?

I'm just trying to augment the explanation that you have of the Tongan language in to what I know is applicable for Māori (NZ and CI).

Btw about 'fonua' taking the article.

All the nouns which have been described as 'self defining', come under the 'locatives' category for NZ Māori and CI Māori. Locatives do not take articles, and if they do, it alters the meaning of the locative base. For example -

Mai runga (NZ Māori) and Mei runga (CI Māori) which translate as 'from above'. It could be explained, that you don't say in English 'from the above' and hence there are no articles used with locative bases (this would only apply to NZ Māori and CI Māori).

But to say 'from the land' (in terms of direction) it would have to be said - mai te whenua / mei te `enua. This is because the base word 'whenua/`enua' is not a locative base.

Is it also, obligatory to have to`o prefixed to hema and mata`u for left and right? I have heard a case of an eldery Tongan man saying 'vahe hema!' (left foot).

Sorry for these questions...I pray that you may be able to point me in the right direction.

aroha nui!

[ego]

Wow, now these are questions! Although my confidence with Tongan is much lower than 6 months ago, since I once more forgot many things having no one to practice, I'll try to respond.

Now, if the boy is being 'focussed', does that mean it would be more correct to say in English (for translation means) the boy is sleeping there?

Where is this "there" coming from? The focus marker here just denotes what would be the subject in an equivalent English construction. In other paradigms it could denote the object. But still I don't understand why you put that "there".

I'm just trying to augment the explanation that you have of the Tongan language in to what I know is applicable for Māori (NZ and CI).

I wouldn't do that if I was you. Tongan seems much more distinctive than Eastern Polynesian languages and such comparisons could confuse you rather than help you

Btw about 'fonua' taking the article.

All the nouns which have been described as 'self defining', come under the 'locatives' category for NZ Māori and CI Māori. Locatives do not take articles, and if they do, it alters the meaning of the locative base. For example -

Mai runga (NZ Māori) and Mei runga (CI Māori) which translate as 'from above'. It could be explained, that you don't say in English 'from the above' and hence there are no articles used with locative bases (this would only apply to NZ Māori and CI Māori).

But to say 'from the land' (in terms of direction) it would have to be said - mai te whenua / mei te `enua. This is because the base word 'whenua/`enua' is not a locative base

I am not quite sure if I understood this question.

[riki]

Where is this "there" coming from? The focus marker here just denotes what would be the subject in an equivalent English construction. In other paradigms it could denote the object. But still I don't understand why you put that "there".

ok, here is an example from NZ Māori -

Ka haere atu au ki te whare wānanga ako ai

This translates to -

I go to the university to learn there

Where I've bolded the words, these correspond to the anaphoric particle 'ai'. In this sentence construction (Māori), we have location emphasis, as the original underlying unfocussed statement is -

Ka haere atu au ki te ako i te whare wānanga

with 'i' being the location case marker.

I wouldn't do that if I was you. Tongan seems much more distinctive than Eastern Polynesian languages and such comparisons could confuse you rather than help you

After going through the lessons again, I've been paying more attention to word placement rather than lexical similarities in word meanings.

I am not quite sure if I understood this question.

Wasn't a question, more of a statement

[ego]

Ok, this example made things quite clearer. It seems that the "locative" emphasis works in the same way for Maori and Tongan. Tongan also uses that "ai". But this is a totally different topic. There are many kinds of emphasis in every language. The focus markers I was talking about don't denote locative emphasis. They are the equivalent of the subject-object sense in IE languages. Don't mix things.
By the way, with the revival of the discussion here, my desire to study Tongan has also revived which is exactly what should not happen to me right now. I have to study Turkish, Hebrew, ancient Greek already, I have to be concentrated on them

[riki]

Don't mix things.

Wasn't the intention.

But it is strongly recommended to do comparative analysis in learning another Polynesian language by a lot of people here.

[Aleco]

I am waiting for more, Ego

[ego]

I am waiting for more, Ego

Hmm?

[Aleco]

I am waiting for more, Ego

Hmm?

Still waiting...

[ego]

I am waiting for more, Ego

Hmm?

Still waiting...

Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs

[Aleco]

I am waiting for more, Ego

Hmm?

Still waiting...

Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs

I am trying to learn the grammar and sentence building the most So, I can use my Niuean dictionary too

[ego]

I am waiting for more, Ego

Hmm?

Still waiting...

Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs

I am trying to learn the grammar and sentence building the most So, I can use my Niuean dictionary too

OK, then I'll wait for your first sentences. You have a Niuean dictionary? Where did you find it? Niuean is 80% identical to Tongan but remember that it's not totally same and there's a caracteristic difference: Niuean does not use the glottal stop, while Tongan uses it more than any other Polynesian language

[Aleco]

Yeah, I know There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu

[ego]

Yeah, I know There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu

Aha.. well, seems quite different, more than I thought

[Aleco]

Yeah, I know There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu

Aha.. well, seems quite different, more than I thought

Yes, particulary this sentence... But I am a bit confused about this present tense marker... Idon't know if it is the present tense it stands for :S I Hav seen it for bort past and present tense... Let me find another example Without tense marker ... (Even though the sentence would be wrong )

Tongan: Ke folau ki Tonga
Niuean: Koe folau ki Toga

I am not sure about "Toga" But I know that ng sounds in other polynesian languages is written g in Niuean, so I imagine it is so

[Mamo]

Yes, particulary this sentence... But I am a bit confused about this present tense marker... Idon't know if it is the present tense it stands for :S I Hav seen it for bort past and present tense... Let me find another example Without tense marker ... (Even though the sentence would be wrong )

Tongan: Ke folau ki Tonga
Niuean: Koe folau ki Toga

Are you sure that you are placing the correct pronouns in the right position in the Niuean sentences? So far, the pronouns you've placed before verbs in the Niuean sentences are postposed pronouns in the Tongan language, where they would follow the verb. To illustrate, these are some pronouns in Tongan:

ou (preposed 1st pers. sing. with 'oku)
ku (preposed 1st pers. sing. with na'a)
u (preposed 1st pers. sing. with kuo and te)
au (postposed 1st pers. sing.)

ke (preposed 2nd pers. sing.)
koe (postposed 2nd pers. sing.)

ne (preposed 3rd pers. sing.)
ia (postposed 3rd pers. sing.)

ta (preposed 1st pers. dual inclusive)
kitaua (postposed 1st pers. dual inclusive)

ma (preposed 1st pers. dual exclusive)
kimaua (postposed 1st pers. dual exclusive)

mo (preposed 2nd pers. dual)
kimoua (postposed 2nd pers. dual)

na (preposed 3rd pers. dual)
kinaua (postposed 3rd pers. dual)

tau (preposed 1st pers. plural inclusive)
kitautolu (postposed 1st pers. plural inclusive)

mau (preposed 1st pers. plural exclusive)
kimautolu (postposed 1st pers. plural exclusive)

mou (preposed 2nd pers. plural)
kimoutolu (postposed 2nd pers. plural)

nau (preposed 3rd pers. plural)
kinautolu (postposed 3rd pers. plural)