The Polynesian-Language Thread

[ILuvEire]

ʻAkahi nō au a puka mai ke kula nui, no laila, ʻaʻohe oʻu hana i kēia manawa. Akā, ke ʻimi aku nei nō au i hana naʻu. He paʻakikī nō. ʻImi i nā wahi e nele ana i nā limahana, hoʻouna aku i kaʻu palapala noi hana, kākau i kekahi resume (ʻaʻole maopopo iaʻu ka huaʻōlelo pololei), a kali i ka lākou pane ʻana mai.

Iwakālua kūmāhā oʻu makahiki. ʻUmikūmāono wale nō ou makahiki? E, ʻeleu nō ʻoe. Kākaʻikahi koʻu launa ʻana me nā ʻōpio i hoihoi i ka naʻauao. Makemake ʻoe e mēkia ma ke kālaiʻōlelo ke hele ʻoe i ke kula nui? E holo mua ana nō ʻoe ma ia kahua.

Hehe, a‘ole makemake au e ho‘opa‘a ike kālai‘ōlelo, makemake au mēkia ma ka ‘oihana ha‘ilono a ka kālai‘āina huli (ā Hikina Waena huli paha.) Pēlā paha, hiki ia‘u ke mēkia kaukolu! Gah, a‘ole ‘eleu au, nerd loa au Akā, makemake au e kākau nūpepa ā mea kākau paha. Pēlā paha e kākau ana au i he puke i ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i, ā ho‘omaka paha au i he nūpepa i ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i. Kēiā moe ko‘u :]

He nīnau ko‘u: a‘ole maopopo au i ke zero-class possessives, like "o‘u" ā "ou" paha. Pehea ho‘ohana au i kēiā pololei?

[kahihi'o]

Hehe, a‘ole au makemake e ho‘opa‘aha'awina i ke kālai‘ōlelo, makemake au e mēkia ma ka ‘oihana ha‘ilono a me ke kālai‘āina (Hikina Waena paha). Hiki paha ia‘u ke mēkia kaukolu! Tsā, a‘ole au ‘eleu, nerd* loa au Akā, makemake au e kākau nūpepa a hana ma ke ʻano he mea kākau paha. Malia o kākau au i kekahi puke i ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i, a ho‘omaka paha au i kekahi nūpepa i ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i. ʻO koʻu moemoeā kēia :]

He nīnau ka‘u: ʻa‘ole maopopo iaʻu ka zero-class possessives, e like me "o‘u" ā "ou" paha. Pehea au e ho‘ohana ai i kēia me ka pololei?

Note: ʻAʻohe huaʻōlelo hoʻohenehene ma ka ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi no ke ake akamai.

I ka nui o ka manawa, hoʻokomo ʻia ka zero-possessive ma hope o ke kikino.

koʻu hale
ka hale oʻu

koʻu mau hoa
nā hoa oʻu

Hoʻohana pū ʻia ka zero-possessive me ka helu, e like me kēia.

ʻElua oʻu kaʻa.
I have two cars.

ʻEhā ona kaikaina.
He has four younger brothers.

No ka ʻike hou aku, e heluhelu i ka puke ʻo Hawaiian Grammar na Elbert lāua ʻo Pukui.

[Ariki]

Aloha kahihi'o,

He ninau ho'i ka'u e pili ana i ka zero-possessive marking.

ʻElua oʻu kaʻa.
I have two cars.

ʻEhā ona kaikaina.
He has four younger brothers.

E hiki ho'i e hana penei????-

ʻElua na kaʻa o'u.

ʻEhā na kaikaina o'u

????

[ILuvEire]

Ahhhh, okay, maopopo ia‘u. Mahalo nui loa, e Mamo

[kahihi'o]

Aloha kahihi'o,

He ninau ho'i ka'u e pili ana i ka zero-possessive marking.

ʻElua oʻu kaʻa.
I have two cars.

ʻEhā ona kaikaina.
He has four younger brothers.

E hiki ho'i e hana penei????-

ʻElua na kaʻa o'u.

ʻEhā na kaikaina o'u

????

ʻAe, hiki paha, akā, ʻaʻole he mea maʻa mau. I nā māmala ʻōlelo ma luna, ke hoʻohana ʻia nei nā helu i mau painu (the numbers are being used as verbs).

[ILuvEire]

Aloha e Kahihi‘o Ua lilo loa au! Ua kipa aku ka ‘ohana ko‘u i kō mākuo mau makamaka. Noho lāua i ka San Jose, mawaho ka San Francisco, i ke Kaleponi. ‘Oia ho‘i, pono mākou ke māka‘ika‘i Ā laila, i kou manawa ho‘i hou i mākou (mana‘o au: "when we returned"), lawe aku au i nā wisdom niho (I had my wisdom teeth removed?? ), a nei, ho‘i hou au i ka ola maika‘i.

Pehea ‘oe, hoaloha?

[kahihi'o]

Aloha e Kahihi‘o Ua lilo loa au! Ua kipa aku koʻu ‘ohana i kō mākou mau makamaka. Noho lāua i San Jose, ma waho o San Francisco, i Kaleponi. ‘Oia ho‘i, pono mākou ke māka‘ika‘i Ā laila, i ko mākou manawa i hoʻi mai ai , ua hemo kaʻu mau niho "wisdom", a laila, ho‘i hou au i ke ola maika‘i.

Pehea ‘oe, hoaloha?

Oia mau nō au, e ke hoa. Pehea ka lōʻihi o kā ʻoukou huakaʻi ma Kaleponi? Hoʻokahi wale nō oʻu hele ʻana i laila, mau makahiki aku nei. ʻO ia ka wā hope loa aʻu i haʻalele ai i ka mokupuni aʻu e noho nei.

I ke awakea nei, ua hele aku nei mākou me koʻu ʻohana i ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni ʻo Earth Sea. Keu nō kēia a ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni manakā. ʻAʻohe oʻu hoihoi iki i kēia ki'iʻoniʻoni mai ka hoʻomaka ʻana a i ka hopena.

[ILuvEire]

Oia mau nō au, e ke hoa. Pehea ka lōʻihi o kā ʻoukou huakaʻi ma Kaleponi? Hoʻokahi wale nō oʻu hele ʻana i laila, mau makahiki aku nei. ʻO ia ka wā hope loa aʻu i haʻalele ai i ka mokupuni aʻu e noho nei.

I ke awakea nei, ua hele aku nei mākou me koʻu ʻohana i ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni ʻo Earth Sea. Keu nō kēia a ke kiʻiʻoniʻoni manakā. ʻAʻohe oʻu hoihoi iki i kēia ki'iʻoniʻoni mai ka hoʻomaka ʻana a i ka hopena.

Ua hele mākou ma Kaleponi no nā pule ‘elua. ‘Ike ia‘u, le‘ale‘a nō ke Kaleponi. ‘Oiai ‘a‘ohe ou hoihoi, ho‘ole‘ale‘a ‘oe, ‘oia nō? Makemake au i ke Kaleponi, mana‘o au ke hele aku hou i laila. Ke Texas kūlewa mai nā mea hoihoi, ka Polenekia kūlewa loa!

Ua hele nei ‘oe ma kekahi mea i ka Polenekia? Makemake au ke hele aku ma Tahiti a Niuē a Tonga

[Struthiomimus]

Greetings!

Lately, I've been interested in how different languages express the conditional. How would one say "If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree" or "If you had called me, I would have come" in Tongan/Hawaiian/Maori?

[ILuvEire]

Greetings!

Lately, I've been interested in how different languages express the conditional. How would one say "If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree" or "If you had called me, I would have come" in Tongan/Hawaiian/Maori?

If I were a monkey, I would live in a tree = Inā au keko, inā au e noho i he lā‘au [conditional particle I monkey, conditional particle I verbal particle live locative particle a tree]
If you had called me, I would have come = Inā ‘oe e ua hea ia‘u, inā au e ua hele mai. [conditional particle you verbal particle past particle call to-me, conditional particle I verbal particle past particle go particle indicating motion towards the speaker]

I'm not 100% sure about the word order, but the short answer is that the conditional is expressed with the particle inā

[Ariki]

Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.

[Struthiomimus]

Wow. You guys are fast! Cool. Thanks for the replies

[kahihi'o]

In Hawaiian, we would use inā for the sentences listed.

Inā he keko au, ua noho au ma ke kumulāʻau.
If I were a monkey, I'd live in a tree.

Inā ʻoe i kelepona mai iaʻu, ua hele mai nō au.
If you called me, I would have come (but I didn't).

Hawaiian also has the conditionals i and ke.

Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.

This is very interesting. I've never thought of me and mehemea in terms of being conditional. I wonder if these terms were once used in that way in Hawaiian. Currently, in Hawaiian we use the word me to mean "like" or "similar to."

Like ʻo ia me ka puaʻa.
He is like a pig.

Me kēia kāna ʻōlelo.
He spoke like this.

Me he lio lā ʻo ia ke holo aku.
He runs like a horse.

We also have me he mea, and the phrase usually means "it is/was as if."

Me he mea lā ua ʻaihue ʻia ka manaʻo o ke aliʻi wahine e Piʻikoiakaʻalalā.
It was as if the princess's thoughts had been stolen away by Piʻikoiakaʻalalā (because of her worrying about him).

[Ariki]

In Hawaiian, we would use inā for the sentences listed.

Inā he keko au, ua noho au ma ke kumulāʻau.
If I were a monkey, I'd live in a tree.

Inā ʻoe i kelepona mai iaʻu, ua hele mai nō au.
If you called me, I would have come (but I didn't).

Hawaiian also has the conditionals i and ke.

Hi Struthiomimus,

Some Eastern Polynesian languages express the conditional with the phrase 'mehemea' or a variation thereof (mena, mehe, me being some of those variations).

Maori uses mehemea, mena, mehe and also has ina to express conditional 'if'. Of the four listed, only ina is truely a verbal particle (the rest would require the use of a verbal particle as me is a preposition.

Mehemea i waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au/Ina waea mai koe, kua haere ke atu au.

If you had called me, I would have come.

This is very interesting. I've never thought of me and mehemea in terms of being conditional. I wonder if these terms were once used in that way in Hawaiian. Currently, in Hawaiian we use the word me to mean "like" or "similar to."

Like ʻo ia me ka puaʻa.
He is like a pig.

Me kēia kāna ʻōlelo.
He spoke like this.

Me he lio lā ʻo ia ke holo aku.
He runs like a horse.

We also have me he mea, and the phrase usually means "it is/was as if."

Me he mea lā ua ʻaihue ʻia ka manaʻo o ke aliʻi wahine e Piʻikoiakaʻalalā.
It was as if the princess's thoughts had been stolen away by Piʻikoiakaʻalalā (because of her worrying about him).

I'll have to see what Pollex says (it may have an entry about mehemea/me).

In some of your examples above they would be more comfortably expressed using penei/pena/pera and ano.

She spoke like this as if she was afraid

Ka penei tana korero metemea kua mataku ia

He is like a dog
Me he kuri ia

He sat there as if he were an ancient carved column

Ka noho ra ia ano nei he pou whakairo tawhito.

[kahihi'o]

Aloha mai kāua,

Yes, we also use pēnei and pēia. For some reason, they appear to be interchangeable with me + demonstrative.

So we can have:

me kēia/nēia = like this.
me kēnā = like that (like you are doing).
me kēlā = like that.

We do have pēnei, pēia, pēnā, and pēlā, though. I would say that me + demonstrative is more common in speech than formal writing.

[Massimiliano B]

Does anybody know the Tahitian language? I think it's very beautiful!


This is how the language sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pie39gb ... plpp_video

[ILuvEire]

‘Ike au kahi loa ‘ōlelo Kahiki. Kohu like loa ka ‘ōlelo Hawai‘i. Kekahi nīnau kuhikuhi pono ou?
I know a little bit of Tahitian; it's very similar to Hawai‘ian. Do you have any specific questions?

[Massimiliano B]

What are the best textbooks (in English or French) for learning the Tahitian language?

Thank you!

[Massimiliano B]

I see now there's a post about the Tahitian language in this forum. I hadn't seen that before.

[shprakh]

Is Tahitian the most spoken Polynesian language? How similar are Tahitian and Maori?