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księżyc - Yugcetun

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księżyc - Yugcetun

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-17, 15:15

Ok, maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I figured I'd start a discussion thread based on Yup'ik (that is Central Alaskan Yup'ik) based upon the notes I'm taking from "A Practical Grammar of Central Alaskan Yup'ik." Just as I've stated in the Aleut Grammar thread, I'm a learner, so don't expect lessons or anything . . . Also I'm not sure how fast I'll be posting the notes for either. I suppose it depends on interest and how fast I move from chapter to chapter in the books (as I'm learning more then these two, for better or worse). Anywho, with out further ado:

Yup'ik Alphabet:

I'll just represent the alphabet in IPA [EDIT: Added more detail to sound system]
m /m/ like English 'm' as in 'main'
ḿ /m̥/ voiceless version of 'm' (no English equivalent)
n /n/ like English 'n' as in 'name'
ń /n̥/ voiceless 'n' (no English equivalent)
ng /ŋ/ like English 'ng' in 'sing'
ńg /ŋ̊/ voiceless 'ng' (no English equivalent)
p /p/ somewhere between English 'p' and 'b'
t /t/ somewhere between English 't' and 'd'
c /tʃ/ somewhere between English 'ch' as in 'chip' and English 'j' as in 'juice'
k /k/ Somewhere between English 'k' and 'g' (as in 'good')
q /q/ like English 'k' expect it is deeper in the throat
vv /f/ like English 'f' in 'fan'
v /v/ like English 'v' in 'van'
ss /s/ like English 's' in 'sand'
s /z/ like English 'z' in 'zinc'
ll /ɬ/ like Tibetan 'lh' or like Welsh 'll' (no English equivalent)
l /l/ like English 'l' in 'lamp'
y /j/ like English 'y' in 'yellow'
gg /x/ like German 'ch' in 'buch' (no English equivalent)
g /ɣ/ like French 'r' in 'Paris' (no English equivalent)
w /xʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'gg' (no English equivalent)
ug /ɣʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'g' (no English equivalent)
rr /χ/ a deeper version of Yup'ik 'gg' (no English equivalent)
r /ʁ/ a deeper version of Yup'ik 'g' (no English equivalent)
urr /χʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'rr' (no English equivalent)
ur /ʁʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'r' (no English evivalent)
(Borrowed [with modification] from wikipedia)

Grammar:
Stems of Verbs:
The formation of verb stems is important for the addition of post-bases and personal endings.
In order to form the stems the 3rd person singular of the verb must be known.

For Example:
taq'uq - he/she/it is finishing(quitting)

A few important observations can be made based upon this example:
1. the personal Ending in this case is 'uq', and it does not distinguish between the sexes. Thus it stands for he, she, and it (though I will from now on only use he or she in referencing the English translation of ease of writing)
2. The verb with the personal ending alone is the basic present tense in Yup'ik
(Note the bold face letters represent the base, this helps to distinguish it from the endings, I've borrowed this convention from the book)

Futher Examples of 3rd person verb forms:
iqvartuq - He is picking berries
caliuq - He is working
ayagtuq - He is playing [EDIT: Fixed typo]

From these examples it can be seen that the 3rd person singular ending varies depending on the base of the verb. Luckily it does so predictably.

When the base from ends in g/r the ending becomes tuq
When the base ends in 'the ending is uq (the ' represents the germination (or doubling) of the consonant it follows)
When the base ends in a consonant or a single vowel the ending it uq
When the base ends in two vowels (either the same or different) the ending is guq

In order to get the base from of the verb the following rules are used:

gtuq --> g-
rtuq --> r-
'uq --> e-
Cuq --> Ce- (where C= Consonant)
VVguq --> VV (where V= Vowel)
Vuq --> V

Examples:
yurartuq --> yurar- 'to Eskimo dance' (Ends in -rtuq, so keep the -r and lose the -tuq)
ner'uq --> nere- 'to eat' (Ends in -'uq so drop the whole ending and add -e)
elituq --> elite- 'to learn' (Ends in Cuq, so drop the -uq and keep the consonant)


Changing the Stem Back into the Third Person Singular:
base ending --> add/change:
-g --> add -tuq
-r --> add -tuq
-e (multi-syllable) --> minus -e add -uq
-e ([C]VCe syllable structure)* --> minus -e add -'uq
-V --> add -uq
-VV --> add -guq

*The second -e form needs some clarification: This is where the word is only one syllable [without the recognition of the final -e]. In other words the word has the following construction: (C)VCe where the word is made up of either a (vowel + consonant + -e) or (consonant + vowel + consonant + -e)

Examples:
nere- --> ner'uq (has CVC + -e structure, so minus -e and add -'uq)
alinge- --> alinguq (longer then VC + -e, so minus -e add -uq)
qavar- --> qavartuq (Ends in -r so add -tuq)

Other Attaches Personal Pronouns:
All of the other personal pronouns are formed the same way, except:
the last letter of the third person (namely -q) is changed in the following ways:

He/She/It -q
they (3 or more people) -t
they (2 people) -k
I -nga/a*
We (more then 2) -kut
We (2 people) -kuk
You (singular) -ten
You (3 or more people) -ci
You (2 people) -tek

*A note about the 1st person singular Ending:
The is ending goes through a phenomenon called 'velar dropping' in which the 'ng' of the ending is dropped when the ending is flanked by a single vowel on both sides.
Ex.
cali + unga --> caliunga (two vowels before the ending 'iu')
nere + unga --> ner' + unga --> nerua (the -unga ending is added to the base of ner' which ends in a consonant, thus the 'ng' is flanked by 'u' on one side and 'a' on the other [which oddly enough make up the very ending!], thus the 'ng' is dropped)

Full Spectrum of Personal Pronouns:

Ex. 1 (using nere- as base)
ner'uq
ner'ut
ner'uk
ner'uk
nerua (germination is assumed with the r before two vowels, so the ' is not written)
ner'ukut
ner'ukuk
ner'uten
ner'uci
ner'utek

Ex. 2 (using cali- as base)
caliuq
caliut
caliuk
caliunga
caliukut
caliukuk
caliuten
caliuci
caliutek


As with all of my posts (of this nature anyway) any questions/suggestions/additions/corrections are welcome!
Last edited by księżycowy on 2009-12-20, 13:38, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Tukkumminnguaq on 2009-12-17, 22:03

I'd glad and thank you very much for help ;)

I would to like help to you guys about Yupik and Inuit dialects grammar or phrases when i am free, this month is not good for me its really busy/errand to do, family stuff etc u know, but i'll do it next month ;)
[flag]en-ca[/flag][flag]sgn[/flag][flag]iu[/flag][flag]kl[/flag][flag]ale[/flag]
[flag]qu[/flag][flag]tr[/flag][flag]yrk[/flag][flag]evn[/flag][flag]ckt[/flag][flag]itl[/flag]

[̲̅̅N̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅b̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅d̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅] [̲̅̅L̲̅][̲̅̅i̲̅][̲̅̅f̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅] [̲̅̅A̲̅][̲̅̅s̲̅] [̲̅̅T̲̅][̲̅̅h̲̅][̲̅̅e̲̅][̲̅̅y̲̅] [̲̅̅K̲̅][̲̅̅n̲̅][̲̅̅o̲̅][̲̅̅w̲̅] [̲̅̅I̲̅][̲̅̅t̲̅][̲̅̅.̲̅]
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-18, 20:38

Tukkumminnguaq wrote:I'd glad and thank you very much for help ;)

I would to like help to you guys about Yupik and Inuit dialects grammar or phrases when i am free, this month is not good for me its really busy/errand to do, family stuff etc u know, but i'll do it next month ;)


No problem. I'm glad to help as much as I can. All be it very limited right now :( , as I just started learning Yup'ik, but then again I have you to help me if I get in trouble, eh? :wink:
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus on 2009-12-18, 23:10

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! :partyhat:

księżycowy wrote:I'll just represent the alphabet in IPA (I'm a little too lazy to do a full description like in the Aleut thread


Don't be lazy! :) Yup'ik is great and it'd help me learn more if you did a full description. So, please add a full description. :P

księżycowy wrote:ayagtuk - He is playing


Shouldn't this be "ayagtuq" based on the pattern? Or is it an exception? Or am I just missing something? :doggy:

Anyway, thanks for this! I plan on getting Jacobson's book too, so this is good to hold me over until then. Can you give any examples of the cases too?
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-19, 0:35

. [EDIT: Noticed two of the same post!?]
Last edited by księżycowy on 2009-12-23, 16:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-19, 0:40

Struthiomimus wrote:Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! :partyhat:
Don't be lazy! :) Yup'ik is great and it'd help me learn more if you did a full description. So, please add a full description. :P

I knew that would come back to bite me! I'll add that later.


Shouldn't this be "ayagtuq" based on the pattern?

Good eye. Yes it should be 'ayagtuq' for 'He is leaving.' That was a typo on my part :oops: .

Anyway, thanks for this! I plan on getting Jacobson's book too, so this is good to hold me over until then. Can you give any examples of the cases too?

I'll get into some more grammar later when I add the fuller description of the sound system in a day or two. Though what specifically I add is more up to the book then me at this point, as I have just started learning Yup'ik.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and support!

And might I say it's a good choice of book, though it's not really into conversational language, just to warn you now. though it is really good for the grammar and vocabulary (and it does introduce some conversational vocabulary, just not like your typical language textbook)
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-20, 14:28

More Grammar:

Yes-No Questions:
Form yes-no questions by adding the following suffix:
-qaa
For Example:
cali-qaa kuuvviartuten? (Are you having more coffee?)
qiaguq-qaa cali? (Is he/she still crying?)
alingutek-qaa? (Are you two afraid?)

A few things can be seen from these examples:
1. That the -'qaa' ending is written with a '-' to separate in from the word it is attached too.
2. That the suffix is always added to the first word of the sentence.
3. This suffix does not change form, it is the same no matter the form it is added to.


Post-bases:
-yug = 'To Want To'
this post-base is added to verbs to convey the 'want' to do something
ex.
caliyug - to want to work
caliyugtua - I want to work

A few things can be seen from these two examples:
1. The post-base is added directly to the base from of the verb
2. The post-base functions as a 'new' ending of the base of the verb, thus the rules applied to the end of a verb base are now applied to the end of the post-base. For Example in the example above:
cali + unga --> caliunga
BUT
cali + yug + unga --> caliyug + tunga --> caliyugtua

-llru = Past Tense
-llru is added to the verb base to create the Yup'ik past tense.
Ex.
calillruuq - He has worked/ He worked/ He was working
qavallruunga - I have slept/ect.

From the base qavar- (to sleep) we can see the affect of this post-base on bases that end in a consonant. We would expect to see 'qavarllru-' instead of 'qavallru-' but 'llru,' when added to a base ending in a consonant, deletes the final consonant of the base, thus 'qavallru-'

-nrite = negation
calinritua - I am not working/ I do not work
qavanrituq - He/she is not sleeping/ He/she does not sleep
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus on 2009-12-23, 3:44

księżycowy wrote:I'll just represent the alphabet in IPA [EDIT: Added more detail to sound system]
m /m/ like English 'm' as in 'main'
ḿ /m̥/ voiceless version of 'm' (no English equivalent)
n /n/ like English 'n' as in 'name'
ń /n̥/ voiceless 'n' (no English equivalent)
ng /ŋ/ like English 'ng' in 'sing'
ńg /ŋ̊/ voiceless 'ng' (no English equivalent)
p /p/ somewhere between English 'p' and 'b'
t /t/ somewhere between English 't' and 'd'
c /tʃ/ somewhere between English 'ch' as in 'chip' and English 'j' as in 'juice'
k /k/ Somewhere between English 'k' and 'g' (as in 'good')
q /q/ like English 'k' expect it is deeper in the throat
vv /f/ like English 'f' in 'fan'
v /v/ like English 'v' in 'van'
ss /s/ like English 's' in 'sand'
s /z/ like English 'z' in 'zinc'
ll /ɬ/ like Tibetan 'lh' or like Welsh 'll' (no English equivalent)
l /l/ like English 'l' in 'lamp'
y /j/ like English 'y' in 'yellow'
gg /x/ like German 'ch' in 'buch' (no English equivalent)
g /ɣ/ like French 'r' in 'Paris' (no English equivalent)
w /xʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'gg' (no English equivalent)
ug /ɣʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'g' (no English equivalent)
rr /χ/ a deeper version of Yup'ik 'gg' (no English equivalent)
r /ʁ/ a deeper version of Yup'ik 'g' (no English equivalent)
urr /χʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'rr' (no English equivalent)
ur /ʁʷ/ a rounded version of Yup'ik 'r' (no English evivalent)
(Borrowed [with modification] from wikipedia)


Thanks for this! :) But wow, a lot of sounds that don't exist in English...a voiceless m? :doggy:

księżycowy wrote:Post-bases:
-yug = 'To Want To'
this post-base is added to verbs to convey the 'want' to do something
ex.
caliyug - to want to work
caliyugtua - I want to work

A few things can be seen from these two examples:
1. The post-base is added directly to the base from of the verb
2. The post-base functions as a 'new' ending of the base of the verb, thus the rules applied to the end of a verb base are now applied to the end of the post-base. For Example in the example above:
cali + unga --> caliunga
BUT
cali + yug + unga --> caliyug + tunga --> caliyugtua

-llru = Past Tense
-llru is added to the verb base to create the Yup'ik past tense.
Ex.
calillruuq - He has worked/ He worked/ He was working
qavallruunga - I have slept/ect.

From the base qavar- (to sleep) we can see the affect of this post-base on bases that end in a consonant. We would expect to see 'qavarllru-' instead of 'qavallru-' but 'llru,' when added to a base ending in a consonant, deletes the final consonant of the base, thus 'qavallru-'

-nrite = negation
calinritua - I am not working/ I do not work
qavanrituq - He/she is not sleeping/ He/she does not sleep


So what would be "I don't want to work" or "he doesn't want to sleep"?

And how would you say "księżycowy" in Yup'ik? 8-)
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-23, 16:06

Struthiomimus wrote:Thanks for this! :) But wow, a lot of sounds that don't exist in English...a voiceless m? :doggy:

Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about Yup'ik; it has quite a few sounds that are unique. If your getting the book, I'd recommend getting the cd's too. The cd's give you audio for the whole first chapter, which goes over pronunciation, and then they give you the audio for all of the vocabulary in the rest of the chapters. It's kind of hard for someone like me to go into describing the sounds any further . . .

So what would be "I don't want to work" or "he doesn't want to sleep"?

Yeah, sorry. I did think about that after I posted the section. Here's the idea for that:

neryullrunrituq = I did not want to eat
nere- + -yug- + -llru- + -nrite- + -uq
'to eat' + to want to + past tense + negative + he/she/it

In other words if all of these post-bases are used the order is thus:
1= -yug-
2= -llru-
3= -nrite-
4= personal endings
And if not all these are used, the order is easily figured out:
neryunrituq = He doesn't want to eat
-yug- + -nrite- + -uq

And how would you say "księżycowy" in Yup'ik? 8-)

Interesting question. Well 'księżycowy' means 'Lunar' in Polish (if I remember correctly). The Yup'ik form of 'moon' is 'iraluq' as to how to change that into 'lunar' I wouldn't know yet . . . But I suppose we'll findout soon enough.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2009-12-24, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus on 2009-12-23, 23:47

księżycowy wrote:neryunrituq = I want to eat
-yug- + -nrite- + -uq


You mean "he doesn't want to eat," ĉu ne? :wink:

Caliyunritua :)

Thanks (btw, how do you say "thanks" in Yup'ik?) for this, because I wasn't sure about the order for the post-bases.
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2009-12-24, 16:28

Struthiomimus wrote:You mean "he doesn't want to eat," ĉu ne? :wink:

Caliyunritua :)


Yeah akleng (sorry). I am really bad at this. I kept noticing I'm making a lot of mistakes. Mostly small ones, but still . . . And most of them are in the English!!! :shock:

Anyway, I also noticed I neglected to mention something important about the -yug- post-base.
-In all post-bases that begin with 'y' (such as -yug-) the 'y' changes to an 's' when it follows a stop consonant (such as 'q' or 'd') or a voiceless fricative (such as 'rr')
-Also these post-bases also have a unique change when next to 't.' The 't+y' combination becomes 'c'

Examples:
taqsugtuq = He wants to quit (Stop Consonant)
taqe- + yug + tuq

aurrsugtuq = He wants to crawl (Voiceless Fricative)
aurre- + yug + tuq

ceńircugtuq = He wants to visit (t+y = c)
ceńirte- + yug + tuq

Thanks (btw, how do you say "thanks" in Yup'ik?) for this, because I wasn't sure about the order for the post-bases.


quyana - Thank you
aa-ang! (your welcome!)
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus on 2010-01-08, 1:38

Yugcetun qalarcugtua! :)

Have you been working on Yup'ik lately? I started learning about cases yesterday and can create wonderful phrases like:

Alingenritua qimugteḿek.

;)
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2010-01-08, 11:38

Struthiomimus wrote:Yugcetun qalarcugtua! :)

Have you been working on Yup'ik lately? I started learning about cases yesterday and can create wonderful phrases like:

Alingenritua qimugteḿek.

;)


Honestly, not as much as I should be. But I'll get into it a little more over the next day or so. I'll be back to posting on the thread in a few days. Aleut was eating up some time over the past few days.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby Struthiomimus on 2010-01-14, 2:11

Cali-qaa elicugtuci Yugcetun? Naulluugua unuamek :/
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2010-01-14, 2:50

Struthiomimus wrote:Cali-qaa elicugtuci Yugcetun? Naulluugua unuamek :/

Ii-i, cali elicugtua Yugcetun 8-) . Alkeng [to hear] naulluuten :( .

I've been a little busy with some of my other languages lately, but fear not, I haven't forgotten about Yup'ik. I'll be able to work on studying some more tomorrow, and I'll post more then.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2010-01-17, 22:35

Ok, back to grammar. On to nouns.

Citation Form Vs. Base Form:
Nouns tend to end in -k, -q, -n, -a, -u, -i in citation form
The following chart will detail how to get the base form







Citation From EndingBase Ending
-kg-
-qr-
-Vn*Vte-
-Cta*Cte-
-ii-
-uu-
-ae/a-

*Where V= vowel and C= consonant

A note for nouns ending in -a. There are two possible base endings, -a and -e. These must be learned for each, though the base ending -a is most common (to my understanding).
Thus we get:
qaiq (wave) --> qair-
nuna (land) --> nuna-
tuma (trail) --> tume-
atkuk (parka) --> atkug-
asveq (walrus) --> asver-
ect.

Ablative-Modalis Case:
SingularPlural
-mek--nek-

This case is used to indicate that the noun in the indirect object of the verb. It is also used to mean 'from.'
'-mek-' and '-nek-' both delete base ending '-e' and under certain cases deletes base ending '-r.'
Base ending '-r' is deleted if it is preceded by a vowel besides 'e.'
(However there are a few bases that seem to fall under this precedent, but they keep their base ending '-r,' these must be learned when encountered.)

Ex.
nuna --> nunamek
atkug --> atkugmek
asver --> asvermek
tume --> tum'ek (aka tummek)
But:
angyar --> angyamek (angyaq - boat)

Whenever the dropping of a vowel due to -mek- or -nek- (in this case the dropping of '-e' creates a three consonant where the middle consonant is '-t-' an '-e' after the '-t-' and changing the endings to -ḿek- and -ńek-
Thus:
qimugta --> qimugte --> qimugtmek --> qimugteḿek

Unfortunately that will have to conclude this for now. More to come soon.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby frederic on 2010-02-19, 9:18

Qaill' ayuqsit?

I came accross this site, specifically this thread, this morning when I googled
yupik grammar
. I just started learning Yupik (CSY) a month a go when some people gave me a stack of books on Alaskan languages for my birthday. Amongst it was A Practical Grammar of the St. Lawrence Island / Siberian Yupik Eskimo Language by Steven Jacobson. Sadly no CD's available. More recently I also started with A Practical Grammar of the Central Alaskan Yup'ik Eskimo Language, also by Jacobson, with CDs :D

It's nice to see that there are more people with the same interests.

Ciao
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2010-02-19, 14:17

frederic wrote:Qaill' ayuqsit?

I came accross this site, specifically this thread, this morning when I googled
yupik grammar
. I just started learning Yupik (CSY) a month a go when some people gave me a stack of books on Alaskan languages for my birthday. Amongst it was A Practical Grammar of the St. Lawrence Island / Siberian Yupik Eskimo Language by Steven Jacobson. Sadly no CD's available. More recently I also started with A Practical Grammar of the Central Alaskan Yup'ik Eskimo Language, also by Jacobson, with CDs :D

It's nice to see that there are more people with the same interests.

Ciao

Yes, indeed. It is nice to know that people are interested in things that you are.
Anywho, unfortunately my interest in Yupik/Yup'ik (Siberian or Alaskan) has been eclipsed by some other languages at this time (mainly Mongolian and Kazakh) but I'll get around to posting eventually. I do find all Eskimo-Aleut languages interesting. (And a lot of Native American languages for that matter.)

I also have 'A Practical Grammar of Siberian Yupik' too. It is a shame that it doesn't have cds to go with it. But I suppose it is intended to be used by some-one that knows another type of Yupik first.

You and Struthiomimus should get in touch in my absence (and even after I start learning again, of course :wink: ).
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby księżycowy on 2010-10-19, 21:10

Put some links to resources in the NAIL sub-forum.
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Re: Yup'ik Grammar

Postby johnH on 2011-02-17, 14:18

is the parka, in german Parka or Anorak.‹—«› If it's Anorak or Anoraq in inuktitut I think that'd also answer the question in this context. cause I read in english it's the same I'm actually writting it down this time.
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